The relationship between The Vampire Diaries’ Stefan Salvatore (Paul Wesley) and Elena Gilbert (Nina Dobrev) has been on and off and up and down and alive and dead for pretty much ever. Yet somehow, somehow, this tortured pair has always bounced back. But are Stefan and Elena finally done for? After Season 4, Episode 11, “Catch Me If You Can,” and the stinger heard round the TVD world, they might be: “You don’t know what I look like when I’m not in love with you.”

Below, we make an unscientific case for both sides, Play along, won’t you?

It’s Over!
1. Elena, under compulsion, told Stefan she wasn’t in love with him anymore. More to the point, she told Damon (Ian Somerhalder) she is in love with him.

2. Stefan got over Elena by getting under Rebekah (Claire Holt). Of their sex back in the ‘20s Stefan said, “It was good because you’re crazy.” She’s still super crazy, so…

3. Duh, Elena and Damon are having crazy hot sex of their own.

4. Elena is confused that Stefan isn’t being nice to her, even though she just broke his heart and is boning his brother. “You’re hurt and you’re acting out. This isn’t you.” Which leads to...

5. Stefan saying, “You don’t know what I look like when I’m not in love with you.” Just say it out loud. That’s a tough sentence to get over.

There’s Still Hope!
1. Even though she’s lovin’ on Damon, Elena was already upset about Stebekah before they had sex. Will she be jealous when she hears that they did the deed?   

2. They made it through Stefan’s days as the Ripper Part Deux, when he was also a serious jerk to Elena. A big enough jerk to say, “I don't want to see you, I don't want to be with you. I just want you to go.” Plus, he tried to drive her off Wickery Bridge, and she got over that trauma.

3. It’s still not clear how much of Elena’s feelings for Damon are a result of the sire bond.  

4. “That kind of love never dies," Klaus (Joseph Morgan) once said of Stefan and Elena. Klaus said that. Klaus.  

5. This is The Vampire Diaries, where literally anything can come back from the dead. Relationships are no exception.